Relay Interviews [Squeeze Spirits] : Sanaka x Lay
Relay: Sanaka X Lay : Part 1 [translator's notes in brackets [] ]
'Until the core of Fatima can be made.'
Squeeze Spirits (SS): If I could, I'd like to start by asking about the recruitment of members into Fatima. Why was Sanaka-san chosen to be the vocalist?
Lay: I liked his voice the best, it's just very skilled. Somehow, with the vocalists who had tried out before him. . . I just didn't feel as though I would be able to rely on them. But Sanaka just felt like a true vocalist. Also, the quality of his voice was great. Vocal quality is extremely important. Whatever song we may practice, the basic quality of his vocals is the one thing that doesn't change. He had the voice quality that I really liked. His tone is low, and his type is one that doesn't go very high.
Sanaka: Actually, when I was singing, I was surprised at how high I could go (laughs).
Lay: Is that so? (laughs) That low of a tone is probably the usual tone for goth-kei, huh? That's what I think at least. It's a voice that really suits a goth-kei band. When he sang with that kind of voice quality, that matched that kei style, I thought, 'I really want to work with him.'
SS: Sanaka-san, why do you think you entered Fatima?
Lay: I've often wondered why you wanted to enter the band.
Sanaka: Well, I had the impression that the band had character, as every member was so distinctive. But, the main reason was that the band had a "jolly air" about it, and that time, I thought it was a good thing.
Lay: Good? (Laughs)
Sanaka: Yeah, good (laughs). At that time, I didn't want to enter a band that was already definite in what visual they wanted to do.
Lay: But if it had been me at that time, and I'd been invited to join a band that was like ours as a bassist, I probably wound't have joined if there was already a vocalist there.
SS: You don't mean that ... (Laughs).
Sanaka: Well, at that time, I was also invited to various bands that already had names. Even though they were from various bands, I rejected the proposals, because I wanted to join a completely nameless band. I wanted to join a band where I wouldn't know what to expect, a band that was in the process of their development, one that was something like, "You haven't seen the color of the band yet." It's because I wanted to be a part of making the color of the band. Neither would I want to gather every member by myself, nor start a band from nothing. I think that's troublesome. But this band was already formed, and seemed like it was still open for change, and at the same time, each member had a different character, which I liked.
Lay: But we kaisan'd rather soon after (laughs).
(everyone laughs)
Sanaka: When I joined, I was like "Is everyone okay? This is messed up ... Hey!"
Lay: (bursts out laughing)
Sanaka: Each member had a certain strange charisma to them (huge laugh) . . . It's not that these charismatic points were all useless, but there were a lot of situations in which these charismatic points were impossible (laughs).
Lay: What an interesting band, huh?
Sanaka: Yeah. An interesting band.
SS: I guess that's something between you two (bitter smile).
Sanaka: (laughs) But actually, since the drummer became the vocalist of Kagerou there were various stories that came out of the time that we had played guitar together . . . And with that, every member had a strong personality. I was really attracted to that. Performances were rough and wild, and I was left with the feeling that it was a really interesting band.
Lay: Certainly interesting (laughs).
Sanaka: Maybe I entered the band because I thought it was just too interesting (laughs).
SS: It surely seems like that (laughs). Well then, you guys have made a lot of popular songs, and so I would like to ask about Fatima's musical compositions. Let's speak about your songs first.
Sanaka & Lay: Okay.
SS: Are there times when the composer requests certain types of lyrics?
Lay: Yes, there are times like that.
Sanaka: First off, there's the time when we decide the theme of the song. Usually, that's about the time that the both of us come up with the title of the song. Some songs that we've attached titles to first have been, 'Public eyes,' 'Blind,' and 'Downer.' In those situations, I listen to some song images that Lay has come up with, and then I create the lyrics. Another possible situation is if the song doesn't have a title, and I'm only given the song, I create the lyrics and then the title comes last. In creating musical compositions, the both of us are partners. It seems that when a composition gets a title first, Lay has had a clearly defined image of what the song is about inside of him somehow. Then Lay vaguely gives this image to me, and through this interpretation I create the lyrics. Like with "Downer", I really didn't understand the concept at the beginning (laughs). I didn't understand the meaning of the word, and so I had to investigate it myself and it felt like I wrote the lyrics with my own interpretation.
Lay: Somehow . . . The sound of the word, at least concerning the title and the image that the title will hold, is fairly important in the beginning. Afterwards, when making the song, I have many images and thoughts going on inside of me. These images and thoughts are probably what give me a starting point when making songs. It's especially at those times when I think, 'I really want the lyrics to this song to be written' that a title comes to me easily. Though, lately, it hasn't really been that way.
SS: I see. What do the both of you like about working together?
Lay: For myself, I'm really not that insistent, or particular on the contents of lyrics, or the story of them. For example, I can't really do it. But I really can't stand simple lyrics. . . nor do I think he writes lyrics like that (laughs).
SS: It doesn't seem like those types of lyrics would go well with your music, Lay-san.
Lay: Right. But that's just a problem of sense, and there are probably people who would like those types of lyrics in my music, and who think they would fit. But, I don't think that I could ever fit with a person who writes lyrics like that (laughs). But because I'm doing this band with Sanaka, I don't have to think about the lyrics too much and it's perfectly alright to do that. No matter the contents of the lyrics or the story of the lyrics, isn't the problem in choosing the words and what sort of sense the words convey? For example, in a song that's basically a 'sweet love song', if the word is different from what sense is meaning to be conveyed, the entire song can turn into a different thing, and people will get a different impression of it, all because of the lyricist.
SS: I think this is certainly true.
Lay: There are plenty of lyrics that don't even need to be read in the world, aren't there? But, Sanaka's lyrics aren't like that.
SS: Lay-san, within yourself do you ever concern yourself with and oppose the choosing of certain words, or the stylishness of the words?
Lay: Aa . . . But that's not really me. I don't write the lyrics. If you're talking about the stylishness of lyrics, Fatima's lyrics aren't really stylish.
SS: Huh, what, really?!
Lay: Yes. They're a little different from being stylish . . . Sanaka's lyrics aren't so much stylish, as they sound more like literature, or like a story. Each song becomes a story in itself. Because of this, the lyrics are different from being just stylish. That's Sanaka's style, and I would never say that they're bad lyrics. I think it's difficult to transmit meaning through simply stylish lyrics.
Sanaka: That's true (laughs).
Lay: It really is just a problem of sense. And I think there are people who are good at it, and people who are bad at it. Because of all of this, I don't really see a point in concerning myself with the lyrics too much. As far as myself being a listener to songs, even if a song doesn't have especially good lyrics it's okay. But within my own band, I feel that the lyrics have to be better than that, and that it'd be best if we had good lyrics.
SS: Because the lyrics have to fit in with your music, hm?
Lay: Yes. There is also the fact that the lyrics outlook on the world becomes the color of the band. A listener is generally like this, and the song can really have little to do with it but . . . For example, a person doesn't usually say, 'The part of this song where this sound comes in is really cool,' but probably pays more attention to the melody and to when the lyrics first come into the song, don't you think? When I think about that type of thing, I know that it's best if my band has good lyrics. But Sanaka's lyrics are probably a little difficult.
SS: "Difficult" you say?
Lay: Yes. I don't think that they're that difficult, but I do think that they're incredibly good lyrics.
Sanaka: Towa can't really read them (laughs).
Lay: Somehow . . . they're difficult to understand. . . . Why so I wonder? There are probably people out there who are like, 'I can't understand the lyrics so I won't become a fan.' As far as them being 'difficult,' if you think about it, that's probably what these people would say about them. And with that, it's a difficult problem. Then it becomes a question of what to do about the difference between what I create and what listeners want. It's a problem balancing the two. Should the listener be able to understand the work completely, or not? And I think that a perfect meeting between the two would probably not be such a good thing. But it's certain that there is a difference between what I am aiming for, and what the listener is looking for.
SS: That's more than likely true.
Lay: And so depending on the extent of not wanting to compromise, there is a place where the two can meet. But I think that some listeners don't want to go that far with lyrics.
SS: Speaking for myself, I really like lyrics of music, and so I'm surprised that that isn't typical for most people.
Sanaka: Well, I also find lyrics extremely important. But being a singer probably has something to do with that.
Lay: Mm. That's a problem of values, and I think it's perfectly fine to listen to a song just for the lyrics. But I think that typically there isn't such importance placed on lyrics. And aren't there songs in the world where such stress placed on lyrics is left behind, and all that is considered is how well the song will sell?
SS: Aa, there is that too, huh . . .
Lay: However, it doesn't necessarily mean that a song's lyrics have to have meaning or a story to them to be good lyrics. For example, Blankey Jet City's lyrics don't have a story-like element to them. But the lyrics have such good sense to them, I really like them. That type of coolness and that type of style is something that certain people just understand how to do.
Sanaka: That is stylish, isn't it?
Lay: Right. But that's because it fits. It's all just a question of sense, and it's difficult. Well, I like Sanaka's lyrics (laughs).
SS: Yes, I know what you mean. Sanaka-san, what do you think of Lay-san's method of making music?
Sanaka: Inside of me, the image of Lay making music is either something like, 'this is a good song' or 'this is a really cool song.' There are times when he gives me a song that's basically finished except for the vocals, and some of the songs he pretty much ignores the vocals. Less than the vocals, it happens more that Lay brings me a song where he's really pursued an interesting composition. Of course, there are songs in which he really wants the vocals to come out, and so he places an emphasis on the vocals through chord progession. But even when Lay brings me a song that sounds really cool, there are times that it's difficult to come up with a good melody or good lyrics. It has nothing to do with my strong points or my weak points, and with various songs . . . Most of the songs that he brings me are things that I've never heard the likes of before. But when he brings this type of music to me, it gives me a strong incentive.
Lay: It also happens that when making songs it becomes difficult to make the lyrics flow with the music. Then it becomes a problem of how to make it flow, but it's something that I look forward to solving. But as far as what I entrust him with . . . It seems like when I've run out of imagination or simply can't figure out how to solve the problem, I'm always expecting him to suddenly burst out with, 'Ah, I see, I've figured it out!' I think without that kind of partnership, there's really no point in being in a band. And I'm not just talking about doing this with the vocalist, but also with the guitarist. In a good meaning, I want to be betrayed. For example, even if there is a beautiful chord progression, there's also the possibility of imagining a good song melody.
Sanaka: Yes, there's that.
Lay: That's great and all, but having a song like that is a little [impossible, difficult] . . . If there's some flexibility, in that type of situation, I'll usually pass the song on to him. And then, once he's passed the song back to me, it's fun to see what sort of oddness has been attached to the song (laughs). I'm always thinking, 'what's this all about?' (laughs). This band definitely has some interesting and fun things about it.
Sanaka: That's the best for a band, isn't it?
SS: Then synergy is born?
Lay: Correct.
Sanaka: Somehow, . . . what sort of band would only have one person do everything . . . For example, is there a band that only has the composer's color come out? Well, surely that's no fun. Would that be a band or not?
SS: Then it would become that the other members only take part in the performance, wouldn't it?
Lay: Yes. We're pretty complex, but there's a lot that we think about and at our basis, we're a band that's raw, I think. I believe in that kind of 'band magic.' That might be a surprisingly old way of thinking about it, but that's probably how it is . . . But I want good things to come out of that kind of band. Putting all of your heart into music that you can make by yourself at your home is good. You'll be playing it with your band, and you must persist in playing it good with your band, you just must use it, I think.
Sanaka: I think along the same lines, I really do. When Lay and I make a song together especially, it's like it becomes a game of catch. He'll throw me a ball with no estimation of the speed, and then I throw it back, wondering how my throw is . . . like that (laughs).
Lay: It is interesting in that way, huh? (laughs).
Sanaka: He'll return my throw with a really intentional change of speed (laughs).
SS: Intentional? (laughs).
Lay: Yes (laughs).
Sanaka: He'll return it with nothing but a really difficult throw (laughs).
SS: But Sanaka-san, do you not ever throw the ball in such a fun way as well?
Sanaka: Mm, that's true. That's probably the point of us doing such a thing together. For example, I pride myself on my low inside throws (laughs). But, if I only threw it back that way, it'd get boring wouldn't it? Isn't it like, 'If I only aim to throw it in this area, there will surely be a hit?' (laughs). It's more like occasionally there's a magic bat, or a really good return throw, and we want to get an out (laughs).
Lay: Hmm . . . Well, we're both aiming to get a homerun, so it's like 'wouldn't it be better to aim for our specialities?' . . . (laughs).
(Everyone cracks up)
Sanaka: Aa, that's true (laughs).
Lay: Right? (smiles) But when the song is complete, isn't the first thing to make the other members listen to it? As for me, that's the moment that I really look forward to . . . Though, everyone's reaction is usually pretty weak (angry).
SS: (bitter smile) Who has the most energetic reaction?
Lay: Towa is probably the one who has the most energetic reaction (laughs). He's an energetic guy (laughs).
Sanaka: Reactions to the lyrics are especially weak (bitter smile). Towa probably doesn't even read them (laughs).
Lay: Aa, well, there's people like that too probably. It's really a problem of different aspects . . . At so-called karaoke, the music that is consumed there, it's like, 'What is the symbolism behind that song and that melody that you're singing to?'
SS: Surely in popular songs that type of feeling is especially there. So, up till now, what song have the two of you worked on where there has been a really big feeling of 'band magic'?
Lay: . . . Surprisingly, 'Mr:Imbalance-44'. I love that song's bridge. When it came to me, I was like, 'ooh! here!' I really like the melody line, as well as the lyrics. . . . Though, I feel like it's not a really popular song at all (small smile).
Sanaka: Hahahahha (laughs)
SS: It's not like that at all!
Lay: Those lyrics are good . . . But everyone, they love 'dandadida' (<-- neglected).
SS: Why so neglected? (small smile)
Lay: No, not neglected (small smile). I feel like they don't really like the lyrics of 'Noble king snake', it's just that they like the sound of 'dandadida.'
Sanaka: I certainly feel that way (small smile).
Lay: Less so than the contents of the song and so forth . . . I feel.
SS: Well when that phrase came out, Sanaka-san echoed those feelings.
Lay: Mm, that was surprising (laughs).
Sanaka: I get surprised when I get fan letters with the fans asking what 'dandadida' means.
(everyone laughs)
Sanaka: It's like 'ee~!' (small smile)
Lay: Appreciative (laughs).
