Squeeze Spirits
translator commentary is in [] brackets
Lay's Personal Interview: PT2
SS: So that kind of sense, isn't just limited to music?
Lay: Yes yes. It can be in anything, and when it's not utilized, I think it's a bad thing. For example, like in costume design, or even flyer design. I also like to at least be conscious of "an art feeling."
SS: So do you think that all of these senses are the factors that draw the line between Fatima and other bands?
Lay: Yes, maybe so. Especially in our music, I think we really show all those senses.
SS: Let's return back to what we were talking about before... Lay-san did you decide to seriously create a band around the time you graduated high school?
Lay: Yeah. That was about the time, I had no interests in anything other than music. And so when it came to music, I started to think: "But if I only do music, that's pretty much useless... maybe." See though, from the beginning, I was really into movies and things like that. So I also thought, "if I could just do music for one movie, I think I'd be able to express myself and that would be interesting." But in order to do that.... well, everything is connected to music.... And I know that with making music, I'd be able to learn about various things. There would be a way of improving my sensitivity to varying areas. So I don't just like movies, but I also really enjoy photograph collections. These kinds of things give me the inspiration to make music. Various things stimulate me to create, and, in a sense, become a part of my music.
SS: Lay, you've really brought up a lot of major issues; you know so much about movies, photos, and things that are simply subculture-ish.
Lay: Perhaps so.
SS: I say this because of how you talk about what you call art, and everything else related to that.
Lay: I think it's pretty much because I love art.
SS: I'm pretty sure, that Lay-san like's the UK?
Lay: I do. Maybe my liking the UK, has something to do with bright songs having a really dark element [in them].
SS: So is that the atmosphere of England itself?
Lay: Maybe. It's there, and I do, indeed, like it. But I don't like much American music. In regards to sound, I like British more. And most of the movies [and the like], but I also am really fond of British art. But I prefer the American entertainment aspect more.
SS: So just like the climate of each country, the art quality is different.
Lay: Definitely. And I find that interesting.
SS: So now onto the next question, Lay-san what role do you think you play in Fatima?
Lay: Hmmm.... if it's in regards to the music side [of things], I'd say I'm the guy that is sure if something is cool or not. And when arranging songs, I'll say things like "like this, no wait, this" or "I want the guitar to have this sort of feeling." I think that's my role.
SS: So when what you think is cool, is thought cool by the members, it's a really well done piece, huh?
Lay: Nah, I just brainwash them (Laughs)
SS: Brainwash.... (Hesitant smile)
Lay: Really, they must never think anything is horrible (Laughs).
SS: Have you ever made any of the members listen to a CD you like?
Lay: 4ge will listen every once in a while. But for the most part, no one really likes to listen to my kind of music (Laughs). I don't really understand it, because even those who say "oh I liked the sound of them live" won't listen (Laughs) («—Relay: Mizuha x 4ge)
SS: So it ends up that you don't tell anyone about any artist's live recordings?
Lay: Ahahahahahha! (Loud laugh) I don't know. I buy CDs that I've never heard of on impulse (laughs). But, back to the music side of things.... for example, when talking about recording, from drum recordings to vocalist recordings, I witness the whole process. When deciding on the guitar, I'll give my input for each part, like "don't you think this sounds better?" and things like, "this is the kind of feeling that I think it should have," so that we'll find that [perfect] sound, and come to the conclusion that "Yes, this piece sounds just right."
SS: So with music, you figure it out in minute detail, huh?
Lay: Truthfully, our music is created meticulously. 4ge's much the same way, like myself.
SS: So that's why in each song you put various sounds into it?
Lay: We do~! Like drum patterns or really meticulous pieces. Because of that, I'll say things like: "Let's jack this part up with some cymbals," or "Here it certainly needs more kick!"
SS: Well now I can understand why Towa said that you were an all or nothing type of person.
Lay: Yes. I am especially picky when it comes to music.
SS: So when you're making music, until each part is meticulously completed, you're the type to enthusiastically instruct?
Lay: Pretty much. But there are times that I'm not like that, but usually I am. I said this before («—Relay: Mizuha x 4ge), but in order to clearly define the song's atmosphere, I like to start with one guitar form. In regards to that guitar, I'll be all: "If you don't play it like this, there will be problems" (Laughs).
SS: What a lot of pressure (Laughs)
Lay: Well, yes it is that way (laughs). But that's my role in the music side of things. I think a lot of bassists are like that. There are a lot of bassists, I think, that seize the intiative when in the process of arrangement. Therefore, a lot of producers are bassists. I'm not really sure why, but I think it's pretty much assumed (Laughs).
SS: Surely, you're right. So bassists are without boundaries, and instructing until each part is complete and artistic, Lay-san do you have anything that you are aiming for or that you want to do?
Lay: Hmm... perhaps without a bass though would be better. Recently, I've been feeling this way. I do want to make a movie soundtrack. Kind of like Vincent Gallo. But I wonder if I'd be able to make a good movie (Laughs). I want to do something like: direct, screenplay, and music.
SS: By using both sight and sound, you want to create your own world?
Lay: Yes, I want to try and create that. I've begun to think about how I can make something personal. I normally listen to a lot of movie soundtracks at home. If I made a soundtrack, I think vintage sounds are best. I can't really do that with Fatima's sound. I find old sounds fashionable. Like, recently, I've been finding the Rolling Stones as incredibly cool. It's with that kind of monaural feel that I want to do things. I want it to be something that doesn't have any real song in it, and I imagine just diligently working away (Laughs).
SS: Diligently working by yourself (Laughs)
Lay: Yeah (Laughs). I want to do something like that. But not until I'm able to direct. But I do think that's what I want to do, or at least something like that.
SS: I think if Lay-san were to make such, it would certainly be cool.
Lay: Since I haven't done it though, I don't know, I mean I've been telling myself: "You really can't do that though, can you?" (Laughs). But surely, I can't become someone like Ryuichi Sakamoto (Laughs). No that's not it, I want to create something more cultish... that's more of who I am, not something major.
SS: So do you think if you went for it, it'd be something more like B-class?
Lay: Yeah. I really like that kind. David Lynch is [just one director] who I really like.
SS: So in the B-class, you'd be first class?
Lay: Yes yes yes yes! I really would like that. It would be just like Stanley Kubrick. That kind of movie, that kind of music, it would be very subtle to the listeners, or those watching the movie.
SS: So [your movie] wouldn't even have the atmosphere of "this is where it gets emotional!"
Lay: Yes. There are [so many] movies where you know "this is where you cry!" right? Those kind are too easy to understand. (Laughs)
SS: So you'd do the reverse (laughs).
Lay: Maybe so (Laughs). Even though I think that's important in a movie, it's enough [if it's too obvious] isn't it. If I were to do it [like usual], I'd find it distasteful. But if it had elements of art and oshare-ness, I think it would surely be opposite of general easy-to-understand [movies].
SS: So Lay-san, you've said that your concept of 'oshare' is not what is trendy among a bunch of people, but something that is in itself. Yet it's still different from something that displays one's originality, right?
Lay: Yes, it is different.
SS: Well then, how do you convey that, of course, it becomes a problem of sense.
Lay: Yeah. It's extremely difficult. .... There is this band, the Strokes. They're kind of foreign celebrities, but have become rather popular lately. They're so coo!!
SS: Where is this band from?
Lay: Well, they're from America, but their music has the same feel as the Velvet Underground. Cause even if what's popular is loud-kei right now, they're playing this kind of music [that's different]. I really think it's extremely oshare.
SS: Ah, so this is the sense of oshare you were talking about.
Lay: Yes, that kind.
SS: If that's so, I think you'll definitely be able to convey the message that you want to to the right kind of people.
Lay: And so, oshare becomes "what's in and what's out of fashion."
SS: What is your goal, then?
Lay: Well, someday, I'd like to make a movie for each member; old Laruku did this, and so I'd like to do that for us [Fatima] as well.
SS: But in order to do such a thing, you'd have to meticulously take into account each member. Since it'd be for Fatima [members], I think you'd be able to create something really amazing.
Lay: I could use any medium though, a movie or even a photobook.
SS: Well, I'd like to change topics to something more personal, and apart from the band: Lay-san, what kind of person are you?
Lay: Ahh, what kind of person am I, huh? ... I'm the kind of person that is generally in want of something dokidoki. I think that's one of the reasons why I like movies. In movies, there's always a change in the story, like a character's everyday life is suddenly turned upside down. That's why I really like Aoyama's movies; his tragedies are the best.
SS: Tragedies.... (Bitter smile)
Lay: Like the movie, Requiem for a Dream. That is the one of the most horrible [tragedies]. In it there's already tragedy. You've got a mother who's addicted to drugs, a girlfriend who sells herself ... anyways, it's a movie with a bad ending.
SS: You like bad endings?
Lay: Yeah. I feel that nothing is sweet in this world.
SS: So, you'd call yourself a realist? (Laughs)
Lay: Yes (Laughs). I'm a huge realist. There are reasons why .... how do I say this, when I dream, there's no way out of its world, you have to live through the dream.
SS: So when that collides with reality, you notice that similarity.
Lay: Yes. This world isn't just full of shit. But I can't ignore the shit that does happen. Every realist would agree. I don't trust everyone, humanity is terrible. It's frightening when you realize what exactly is meant when something is "human."
SS: If someone thinks like that, and then they experience betrayal, it's an overwhelming sensation.
Lay: Yes, and that's why I don't really understand the meaning of life. There's the food chain, and the ecological pyramid, but human existence doesn't really fit in there. I've always thought that strange.
SS: But everyday people feel that being human is something special.
Lay: Yes, and don't you think there is something wrong with that? I don't really understand what makes humanity special. Of course, humanity has the potential of doing great things, but most of the time that is never realized. Even in our own backyards, bad things are happening. And even if I'm concerned about something, there's nothing I can do ... It's just, parents killing their kids, kids killing their parents, it's all in cold blood, and war is endless ... it's cruel. I think that's why I became a realist.
SS: Even if normal people notice things like this, however, they choose to ignore it. Lay-san, you seem to be totally against this.
Lay: Exactly. I find it cruel. That's why I like animals.
SS: I feel the same way.
Lay: There's a part of me that wants to escape reality ... and this reality, you can't turn your back on, or else it's bad. There are certain things that are never made public, that very few people know of, and that are hidden at great costs. I am interested in things like that.
SS: Like?
Lay: Let me explain ... I hope this makes sense. For example, there are videos that capture a murderer's act. It's hard to believe in such a thing, but I do believe in that. More than that, there are things like "daruma onna" which everyone talks about secretly; these are real, however. And the reality is people can't simply brush it off as "that's strange" or "things like that can't possibly exist." I want people to be aware that they do exist, anything can exist.
SS: You want people to understand human nature.
Lay: Yes. There are different kinds of people; there are idiosyncrasies. In the past, we've tried to create little people, naming them "freaks," so that they could be sold to the nobles for high prices.
SS: What!?
Lay: What? They wouldn't grow any taller, they never got bigger, they would go through life doing absolutely nothing. And that was the intent of creating little people.
SS: ...
Lay: Personally, I think that shows you human nature.
SS: And people who don't see human nature for what it is, make humanity look glamourous.
Lay: Yes, yes, yes. It's very surreal. Human nature is not beautiful. And I like to talk about that.
SS: Everyone pretends to be beautiful, when really human nature is corrupted. Lay-san, you want to know people's true stance.
Lay: Yes. But people don't realize that human nature is cruel and ugly because they know there would be no going back to how they normally see the world. I think that's why people don't want to think about these things, they don't want to realize. But I knew what human nature meant from the start. It's like the saying "underneath it all, [humanity is cruel]." Look at the witch hunts, those were horrible. But even if normal people hear about these things, they refuse to believe in them. But things like this exist, and it's an ugliness in everyone. Therefore, you should accept it rather than hide it. It's the worst when people play innocent or act unaffected.
SS: Considering what we've talked about, I feel as though you've simply noticed things for what they are.
Lay: Yes, and there is meaning to that. Again, that's why I remain a realist.
SS: Is it similar to how "realistic punks" portray themselves? (Small smile)
Lay: Yeah (Laughs)
SS: But punks in general are very realistic, right?
Lay: Yeah, I think so. And when I came upon that scene, I felt as though I could fight back (Laughs).
SS: So, Lay-san, could you tell me what you can't live without?
Lay: What I can't live without ... I think if I didn't have something to be dokidoki about, I wouldn't be able to live. Anything will do. For example, I find raising a puppy a very enjoyable and dokidoki experience. So things like that are what I'm talking about.
SS: So things that make you dokidoki ... is that the meaning to your existence?
Lay: Well ... it's more than that. But if there wasn't anything that made me dokidoki, there'd be no reason to life. I'm not a person who "lives because I don't want to die." I'm a person who "lives because I want to live."
SS: Everyone must make decisions as they move towards death; until that time, people spend time doing various things, and sometimes what they decide to do isn't easy to understand.
Lay: Yes. There are people who do nothing, and those people are usually the ones who live because they don't want to die. I'm not like that. I have a purpose. And so I continue to live because there is so much that I want to do. If I didn't have any purpose, then there'd be no reason to live .. Right now, there's really nothing that makes you feel the need to live, with the exception of kids. If I had a kid, I'd live for the kid. But since I'm by myself, "I have to find something to keep me going everyday." It's a difficult thing (Bitter smile).
SS: Your words are harsh (Bitter smile).
Lay: Yes, well, everything must be fundamentally dokidoki to me. If I didn't have any feelings of dokidoki, then I wouldn't be doing this band. But, since music always makes me go doki doki, there's no need to worry about that. If I didn't have music in my life, I don't think I could do anything.. With that, recently, I haven't had the urge to listen to a certain CD. (Laughs).
SS: Is it the composer's fault? (Laughs)
Lay: Yes (Laughs). It's horrible, because I want to listen to! (Laughs).
SS: When you're in your house, though, don't you usually have some kind of music on?
Lay: Yes, you can always hear it. There's the television, which apart from watching movies, I don't really use it for much. Usually, though, I am playing music. It's impossible ... I am always thinking: "how many CDs have I not listened to yet!" Why do people limit themselves? This has nothing to do with whether or not, I want to do or not do music. I just don't understand people who limit themselves to listening to certain music. It's important to me to listen to various types of music.
SS: It's better to take in everything?
Lay: If a person can, yes. But of course, even I experience times when there's nothing to do. And I can't get busy, and everything just draws a blank. (Laughs).
SS: I think anyone experiences that (Laughs).
Lay: But I want to listen to all music people can make ... and it's not just limited to music, I want to experience various things. If you don't experience something, you look like a dumbass if you talk about it as though you do. For example, a person who hasn't had any experience of a suicide attempt [whether it be a friend or themselves] has no place giving views on it.
SS: So people who haven't experienced certain things, can't really say whether something is good or bad.
Lay: Yes, that's why I want to experience everything. Perhaps, that's more of my personal motto. And so, hopefully, when I become an adult ... wait, I'm already an adult (Laughs). When I become an ojisan, I want to become a cool ojisan.
